journalists but to relieve the tensions between our two countries. here is what he had to say. >> i don't believe in, you know, cowboy diplomacy and i know this would not be that case but yes, if he could sit down with the north koreans and convey a message from the administration and the congress to be more reasonable when it comes to verifying their nuclear program and getting away from the development of nuclear weapons it would be a good thing. >> well, obviously we have not heard from the white house whether or not bill clinton would be carrying any other kind of message, again, if you look at what robert gibbs said, he referred to it as a solely private mission. this is interesting, not the least of which bill clinton's own past with north korea, a big name, a big card to play. he almost went to north korea actually back in 2000, and of course, in a deal with them, a nuclear deal in 1994 that ultimately fell apart in 2003, but there's a history there and there's recent history, dylan, between his wife, hillary clinton, the secretary of state, in north korea. they had a war of words not long ago. she referred to north korea as

something like a belligerent unruly child needing attention. "she is by no means intelligent, a funny lady" and adding "sometimes she looks like a primary schoolgirl and sometimes a pensioner going shopping." so no loss there but the feeling is by many experts is that bill clinton is somebody the north feels had shown them respect in the past, and would be a good messenger, a good envoy to try to get the release of these two journalists. >> jonathan capehart are you here? >> i'm here. >> what makes you feel bill clinton more qualified -- savannah just described that, why do you think the north koreans would be potentially be more willing to tolerate diplomacy by former president clinton than the secretary of state or any of the current administration? >> well, i think it's because president clinton is a former president. president clinton is still viewed with respect and is popular around the world. maybe --

>> hold on. >> wait, wait -- >> you're saying you respect him because he's a former president. what about hillary clinton the secretary of state? >> she's the secretary of state and as savannah pointed out, the war of words between the two makes it, i think, a little difficult for the secretary of state to deal with the north korean regime. president clinton even though he's married to the secretary of state might be viewed by the north koreans as someone who might be an honest broker, someone they can deal with, someone of stature to whom they could possibly hand over the two journalists or with whom they can deal that is not tied directly to the obama administration. >> right, i got it. >> they're not giving in to the obama administration but they are. >> if you consider that speech to the concept of face and saving face, that i will concede or agree to a new arrangement, but i will only do it in a way where i don't appear humiliated or diminished in some way.

>> right, exactly. >> what is it about bill clinton's ability to do this, and in other words, is he able, is there anything beyond this in his ability to relate to the north koreans without them feeling like they have to lose face every time they do something that we may want them to do or the west may want them to do? >> right, they could have gone to someone else like, say governor bill richardson, the former energy secretary. he's had many years of relationships dealing with the north korean regime, negotiating with them on nuclear arms, all sorts of things. they could have gone to him, but governor richardson is not of this stature of former president bill clinton so if this is what they need to do to save face, then you know, more power to them, as long as it means getting those two journalists back. >> and for me it opens up an interesting question, savannah. if we're able to negotiate with north korea in a way they feel they're not losing face, not being bullied by this, the ogre

of the west as they perceive it to be, is that a ray of light for former other potential conversations or am i way ahead of myself? >> well, look, i can tell you what officially the way the white house looks at it and the state department looks at it, they want north korea back at the table. they want them to be part of the framework, the so-called six-party talks but as you've been talking about, the north wants to have a bilateral meeting, they want to have bilateral engagement. they think that's a better path for them, but at the same time that all of this is going on, you also have a scenario where the u.n. has just enacted some pretty tough sanctions. china and russia on board with those sanctions. >> right. >> apparently willing to enforce them, and as hillary clinton herself said not long ago, the north doesn't have a lot of friends left, so it's not clear that the white house would want bill clinton over there freelancing or doing some kind of freelance diplomacy. they may be hoping it's really confined to these issues. if it creates a little goodwill, that's a good thing. >> understood.

interesting next month when we get everybody in town for the u.s. to talk about this and so many other things. savannah, thank you so much. see you at the top of the hour. jonathan staying with us. steven will be along in a little bit to talk about a whole list of conversation, including immigration along with maria teresa kumar. contessa, real quick, i asked her how much do we have to do michael jackson? she said we have to deal with the kids and the doctor but now we have a fourth or fifth element coming in here? >> yes. >> another potential father of the children? what's going on here? >> so kathleen jakatherine jackn got custody of the three children. the big surprise yesterday, this guy, dr. arnold klein, michael jackson's dermatologist asked for some guardianship arrangement for the two older children, prince and paris. here's the statement. "dr. klein has always had a special relationship with paris, katherine and prince michael,

loves and cares deeply for these children and is looking out for their best interests." courtney hazlett is in burbank. when we heard him say he's not the father of the two older children this guardianship calls that into question. >> remember, contessa, his actual words were "i'm not the father, to the best of my knowledge," or something really vega long those lines. this definitely does raise that question again, though, why does he have this vested interest? he says that he told michael jackson he made these promises to him he would always look after his children to some extent and that was sort of the message being put out there yesterday. however, september 1st expecting more documents filed on behalf of dr. klein to further this point, bolster his argument. the judge basically dismissed it and said this isn't happening today but september 1st we'll get more information why dr. klein feels like he has some sort of parental rights to these kids. >> all right, so on the "today"

show, matt lauer was asking about his relationship with them, whether there might be a deal with dr. klein in the future. let me play it. >> does katherine jackson have any intention of giving him visitation, any kind of a say at all? >> absolutely not, to my understanding. it is somewhat interesting from a media standpoint but it has no basis of relevance from a legal standpoin standpoint. >> when they go back into court september 1st is it likely dna will come into this at all? >> i don't think you can rule that out but at this point it's definitely very, very early to make speculation that's that specific. i would weigh in this, though. right now there's no legal argument according to katherine jackson's attorney but that doesn't mean there might not be one by september 1st. there's a lot of legal moving around that needs to take place and one thing very interesting here, too, so often in the story, why would somebody do

this? because they need the money. this is one case you've got an individual who doesn't need the money. dr. klein has an extremely successful practice. he's got his own money. there's definitely more to this story here that doesn't have to do with the usual reasons that the hangers-on have come forward in this case to date. >> courtney, thank you. dylan is waited with bated brea breath. >> i'm sure. >> debbie rowe is the mother, the assistant to this doctor, is this correct, the dermatologist? >> right. >> it's not that hard to speculate now that the doctor is coming forward, did this dermatologist and debbie rowe bear children together on behalf of michael jackson, and is that where we're headed come september? >> i don't think it's somebody you can rule out until it can be ruled out and so dr. klein, from the beginning, wasn't saying, no, absolutely not, unequivocally i am not the father of these kids. he gave a cagey answer and danced around the subject. it's fair to say that's where we could be going. >> thanks, courtney. breaking economic news on

msnbc, the commerce department reporting consumer spending increase in june the second straight month up .4% but personal income dropped just over 1%, the biggest drop in four and a half years. we're earning less money but spending more, hmm. boston police officers doing the mayor and the police commissioner claiming, are you ready for this, he's claiming his civil rights were violated, the same police officer who fired off a letter to the "boston globe" calling this man, harvard scholar henry lieu use gates a filthy -- called him a jungle monkey, come on. the police officer was suspended for that, but here's officer justin barrett, he says boston's mayor and police commissioner, do we have the graphic? well here's justin barrett. he says the commissioner and the mayor acted as prosecutor, judge and jury and that their comments damaged his reputation. the mayor and commissioner have refused to comment. 's sea saying his civil rights were violated.

>> listen, more of a culture of if we can get away with it, we will. the banksters, you name it, everybody's in to getting away with it these days. god bless them. >> i guess so. >> thank you, contessa. much more ahead on "morning meeting," why john mccain is voting no on sotomayor and does it have anything to do with the man who plans to oppose him in next year's primary? that candidate, chris sincox, joins the meeting. no laughing matter to some, a poster suggesting president obama is a joke. is it the latest example of american uprising? protests upon protests. and we haven't even gotten to 2010. we're back right after this. my name is chef michael. and my dog bailey and i love to hang out in the kitchen... so she can watch me cook. you just love the aromas of beef tenderloin... and, ooh, rotisserie chicken. yes, you do.

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good tuesday, everyone. i'm contessa brewer. the full senate begins debate today on the nomination of judge sonia sotomayor to the u.s. supreme court. as it stands, sotomayor has the votes for confirmation but as expected she's finding very little support from republicans, including senator john mccain. >> so she attempted a long public record of judicial activism during her confirmation hearings, judge sotomayor cannot change her record. >> the senator argued he can't support a judge who he says legislates from the bench. nbc's first rate on politics team notes that mccain has a state that is 30% hispanic but he's facing the leader of anti-immigration groups the minutemen in the primary in 2010 so dylan, he may be trying to make inroads with folks who would take a stronger

anti-immigration stance. >> basically trying to steal their thunder ahead of time i presume. joining us from phoenix, chris simcox, founder of the minutemen civil defense corps, a group fighting as you probably know, hard against illegal immigration, very clear platform from the minutemen. chris we welcome you. he also by the way is challenging john mccain in next year's republican senatorial primary. mccain voted no here to indiminish chris's effectiveness come primary time. we asked senator mccain to join the conversation. >> for the balance of the show, it is a delight to have you back, nice to see you. chris i'm going to begin with you. what are your thoughts on the latest maneuver, if you will, from john mccain? >> well it illustrates one of the basic problems with our political system that we use ethnic issues and we use whatever issues are in the

public mind at this point for political expediency. where was john mccain before he did vote no against sotomayor before, and we would expect him to do so now. for it could be used as political fodder in that sense is, i think part of why this system has become rather despicable. >> your argument is this is whether it's the banksters, the health care pick, the conversation, this is more evidence that the political system is not set up to work properly. is that what you're saying? >> right. exactly. i mean to base a decision on ethnicity or race and for those arguing lately that to play the race card and, i call them racialists, basically they use it for political expediency, as well as, you know, to drive home a point and drive a wedge between our communities and that's not what this is about. illegal immigration is not about being anti-immigrant or being against t.a.r.p. bailouts or anything, it's not about any group of people, it's about good

governance. >> we've got a lack thereof. maria, i'm interested in both your thoughts on the mccain vote and also on what chris just said, in other words, the use of an immigration issue or immigration as an issue for political maneuvering as opposed to trying to solve for immigration, let's say, in a way that is in the interests of society, the immigrants, labor, all the conversation, which sort of began a couple weeks ago here. >> this is a lot of questions. good morning. how are you? >> loaded. good morning, good morning. >> i think first of all, when obama chose judge sotomayor, she's an incredibly, incredibly well-qualified woman who happens to be latino american. the fact that you have folks such as ken starr and laura bush supporting her candidacy it speaks volumes. i think what mccain is doing, doing the political calculation. i really need to go for 2010.

i need to win there and then we'll worry about 2012 later but that's a miscalculation on the republican side. it's the very first time that we have a president who really has a grassroots mobilization apparatus that we've never seen before and where he could ignite his base just as much as the republicans are trying to ignite their base and that is a political miscalculation that i think the republicans have to step back and say what's going to happen midterm. dylan, i've been doing voter registration for the last four and a half years and i can tell you consistently midterm elections participation -- >> i want to interject and speak for mccain only because he's not here, even though we asked him if he could join us. he's saying it's not about her race, it's about her record n his defense. in other words you heard the sound bite. >> right. >> he's saying her record is that of an activist judge. he says this has nothing to do with race. >> her record is anything but. the fact that you have a traditionalist such as ken starr, who is very much to the letter of the law saying that in his opinion, she is not a

judicial activist, anything, she's much more to the letter of the law, so i think that what mccain is playing upon is sound bites so that it could appease the fringe when in realities her record does not demonstrate that at all. >> chris, from a political strategy standpoint f you're mccain's rival going into 2010 for the senate seat in arizona, how do you -- >> well, frankly it's a non-issue. >> how do you position yourself? >> it's about positioning yourself with the voters in arizona. arizonians could care less what's happening in the rest of the country. we have serious issues here. certainly they're interconnected but again this is not about her record. her record is actually pretty dismal when you consider the supreme court overturning many of her decisions working at a lower level so this is about her activism from the bench and something we were concerned about -- >> i'll get you maria in one

second so chris, you agree with mccain? >> absolutely on this one. here in arizona where was mccain early in this discussion? he should not have waited until now. it was a clear-cut issue. she was wrong for the job and she's -- >> i got you. i'm running a clock here so real quick, maria and then jonathan. >> i would have spoken out more. >> 300 decisions the supreme court looked at seven of them and overturned three of them so i think that's a pretty good record. however, folks are miscalculating. the latina community represents 17% of the arizona voting population. their voting participation was 5% above the national average in 2008. >> but it's not about the ethnic groups. >> no, but it's about -- >> you talk about politics it's a group, it's despicable, not what the country is about. >> jonathan, last word, he's been very patient. go ahead, jonathan. i'm out of here. >> here's the thing that no one's talked about. i think it has nothing to do with judicial activism.

i don't think it has very much to do with trying to shore himself up with, on the immigration issue. i think it has a whole lot more to do with the fact that the national rifle association for the first time is using legislators votes on this nomination in their scoring for when they do their endorsements for candidates. >> ah. >> there's a lot of fear on capitol hill of the nra and i think that might have a whole lot more to do -- >> >> judicial activism is why you have the setup. >> we need an nra party, the bank party, the health care party, the union party. >> that's the american political system, we don't have democrats and republicans. that's the big misdirect. anyway, contessa, what's going on with our president? >> we have some breaking news coming in about the former president bill clinton. the south korean news agency is reporting that clinton has passed on a verbal message to

kim jong-il from u.s. president barack obama. bill clinton is on a mission right now to north korea seeking the release two of journalists, laura ling and euna lee who have been held in north korea since march. they were accused and convicted of sneaking in to that country illegally, and basically north korea accused them of spying but again clinton is there trying to win their release, and while he's there, the white house says that they are not going to comment on president clinton's mission, because they don't want to jeopardize it. dylan will keep up today on the stories come in. >> thank you, very much. straight ahead here on "morning meeting" protesters crashing lawmakers' town halls. look at this one, just a couple of days ago, with health and human services secretary is sebelius and senator specter. is there a not so subtle uprising going on in america? we'll converse that and trying to make health care fun, i think

it's worth it. we've got comedians, we will make health care accessible and fun for america if it's the last thing we do. there's going to be like a magic trick. we're back after this. his coat is incredibly shiny and soft and very thick. everybody thinks he's the most handsome cat they've ever seen. [ woman announcing ] purina one for indoor cats... unlocks the brilliance of nature... with a natural fiber blend that helps minimize hairballs... and maintain a healthy weight. [ laurie ] he's a character. he brings so much laughter into this household. and he's the best-lookin' cat there is. [ announcer ] it's amazing what one can do. we're shopping for car insurance, and our friends said we should start here. good friends -- we compare our progressive direct rates, apples to apples, against other top companies, to help you get the best price. how do you do that? with a touch of this button. can i try that? [ uckles ] wow!

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still to come, from hope to socialism, a picture worth a thousand words but does this picture mocking president obama symbolize a growing uprising in this country? we'll have that conversation here after this.

all right welcome back to the "morning meeting." i'm dylan. for this half hour, going for broke, medicare pays out more than it takes in, the same will be said for social security, the banksters have taken their piece of the action, and the caper continues. the government, in fact, they say could run completely out of money at the current run rate by 2020. we'll get into some of the reasons why, and again, the whole government kind of is like the new york knicks, put a lot in and get little out. why are we getting pennies on the dollars and why are the dollars being sent all over the country to people who don't create any value? interesting system now. an earthquake rocking the west coast meanwhile, we don't care what happens to the money in the seismic business. california apparently if this keeps up, san francisco's view

will be that of los angeles. it's not that it falls into the ocean apparently, it's that it slides down to mexico so we'll talk about that, means good things for some real estate if you live through the whole thing, nice view. the courtroom adding fuel to the fire in the michael jackson drama, did the king of pop really father his children or was it his dermatologist and his dermatologist's assistant? don't ask. the opening bell is sounding on wall street, we await some pending home sales data for the month of june, that report due out in the next hour, again we're in search of stability, it's the least we could ask for, considering the trillions taxpayers up to try to get the system to stop its freefall and of course more with a few folks here over the next little bit. pull up a chair and join "morning meeting."

. i have never seen members of congress work more harder t is unacceptable to me. >> that of course health and human services kathleen sebelius being booed over the weekend when she defended the work congress is doing on health care. contessa has more on a growing movement that has lawmakers feeling the heat. >> democrat senator arlen specter also took some hits and the drudge report hyped up a slice of video that savaged obama on health care, the video showed obama advocating the elimination of private health insurance, although the full transcript of that march 2007 event suggests no such thing. that prompted the white house health care spokesperson linda douglass to send us a new video.

>> what happens is because he's talking to the american people so much, there are people out there with a computer and a lot of free time, and they take a phrase here and there, they simply cherry-pick and put it together, and make it sound like he's saying something that he didn't really say. >> also, in l.a. a new campaign compares president obama to the joker from "batman." the posters show an image of the president wearing makeup similar to heath ledger's character from "the dark night. "under his face the word "socialism." a similar poster spotted thousands of miles away in atlanta. dylan, a lot of anger. >> understandably. folks don't know where to put it but feel it. of all of the stories we talk about, jonathan capehart, mike ames joins the conversation, the founding editor of "the exile" and exiledonline.com and author of the book, "going postal: rage, murder and rebellion from reagan's workplaces to clinton's

columbine and beyond." i welcome you back to the program, mark. i want to get into it with you a little bit here. there's lots to be frustrated about right now. most people in america, if we look at their understanding and steven and i talked about it, know that the banks basically stole a bunch of money from america and the government let them do it. they know that the health insurance system we spend 16% of our gdp on it and the same health care as costa rica per person so there's clearly theft or inefficiency in the health care system. they know that corn lobbies got a lot of control over this, that and the other thing, all of these different lobbying groups, these special interests are basically pushing their agendas at everybody else's expense but they don't know what to do about it, and so you start to see just flare-ups, posters, internet rage, whatever it may be, walk us through your book and how you basically see the negative

manifestation of these frustrations, ala columbine, anybody else, myself, and make it constructive for america. it's america that's at risk and all of us yelling at each other -- >> there's definite frustration. >> right, and so we are reaching this boiling, how do we convert the boiling point to a great event for america as opposed to a disastrous one? >> i think we also need to know that a lot of these things, probably this poster campaign and some of these attacks that you see, secretary sebelius are probably organized and paid for. >> so a lot of that is theater. >> a lot of it is political theater and you see it in countries of the world. >> does it make the argument less credible? >> it's effective and there is genuine anger out there. >> and you're saying there's special groups that are taking the genuine anger that steven a. and myself and others and myself talked and manipulating it for

their own particular advantage. >> clearly is -- everybody understands there's a problem going on pip i read a statistic the other day the walton family, siblings of the guy who started walmart, the siblings are worth more than the bottom 100 million americans, their wealth. that is how bad -- america's wealth gap is like a banana republic right now and people know it and they're angry but a lot ofager is being intentionally herded into the wrong areas. you have people who are somehow fighting, you know, they're attacking sebelius demanding they don't get health care. basically they're attacking obama, attacking sebelius over things that, i mean sebelius and obama are trying to help them live longer and these guys are demanding no. >> steven, i want to draw on a little bit of your past because i think it's relevant in this context. >> um-hum. >> the government's job is to enforce the rules of the game. >> um-hum. >> to say if you want to get rich, you want to be successful, you must do something. you either have to start a small

business. you have to create something of value, but you can't simply go to the banking side and play ponzi schemes and parlor games with money in a game of who's the richest, that's not capitalism, and i think people are coming to understand that. but the frustration is that the ref is not saying to people on the money side you must put money in, you can't take money out. >> let's be accurate. it's not the ref per se is not doing their job. the ref is doing the onon the people they're supposed to be representing. >> right. >> there's a difference. that's the question that people have about this government, when you're talking about, when you're talking about the federal government the fact is looking at wall street or the banks, whether you're looking at insurance, aig, whatever the case may be, the government played a role in facilitating this transpiring but not being the proverbial watchdog they were supposed to be. now that all of this stuff is going on we're looking at government and the same government that played a role in

this catastrophe is the one standing up and saying, trust us to fix it. it's not obama, but when you look it up barney frank and others in congress that had something to do with this stuff, larry summers, all of this stuff that took place, people are saying i'm supposed to trust you? and that's what you see when people look at arlen specter and sebelius and everybody else. that's what i think. >> so the question is, that's the real emotion, right, you look and you see it and you're like we're getting screwed because o.j. is in charge of the crime scene. i don't know what happened, but i know that -- >> good analogy. >> i know the people investigating are the same people that were there when the crime happened and saying trust us. >> they were put in there it seems as things were getting worse, all of the people who set up this crime were put back in as if to cover it up while going on. look at larry summers, this is a guy who in 1990 took over lithuania, five years later lithuania has the highest suicide rate in the world. >> that frustration leads to

that sense of powerlessness and all of the things that happened, how can we convert this potential big ball of negative energy, very disruptive force into something constructive for america, to where basically the people are able to use the theoretical strings of democracy in 2010 to take their country back from the lobbyists. >> what i've seen is if you want to get your health care, you want to get your piece of the pie, you have to fight for it, because the other side is fighting without any rules at all. >> i ask this question a lot. you just finished pointing out the role that larry summers played. >> right. >> yet he's heading obama's economic -- excuse me, how do you fight that with the very person you entrusted with the presidency that's putting this particular individual in such a position of power? >> you got take to the streets. people to v to take to the streets in large numbers.

that's what stirs people because we don't have the money. all we have are numbers. >> in other words, we'll come back to this. i have breaking news on north korea and unfortunately, this issue is going nowhere. what's going on in north korea? contessa? >> dylan, right now we have north korea's official news agency which is of course state-run saying that kim jong-il has met with former president bill clinton, the former president is there, seeking the release of two journalists captured in march, euna lee and another journalist here. we also have a message from the white house saying that bill clinton is not carrying a message from president obama, contrary to the reports of south korea's yanhapious agency. bill clinton on his arrival you're seeing him, trying to win the release of those two captured journalists. we'll stay on top of it. the top u.s. general in iraq disagrees with the colonel's memo that urges an early troop withdrawal, despite an

improvement in the security situation. general odierno says americans need to stay the course in iraq. a u.s. army vilzer to the iraqi military wrote the memo last month saying the united states should go home 16 months ahead of schedule. and more breaking news here. colorado state university storm research team lowering its hurricane forecast for the atlantic hurricane season. it's predicting that ten tropical storms will form and four will become hurricanes, down from 11 tropical storms and five hurricanes predicted june 2nd. >> contessa, i don't want to give you a hard time but don't they have no idea? let's be honest. we get ten, we get nothing. >> it's sort of like a weather forecaster basing it on the best science you have at hand but you get half way, we're a full two months, a month, two months into hurricane season? >> nothing. i'm not complaining but just saying prediction seems to be -- >> the point is now maybe you have better science at your fingertips for what will happen say in october. >> all right.

what else you got? >> the white house cash for clunkers program is likely to end in days amongst the senate, approving $2 billion in additional funding. the president is expected to push reluctant democratic lawmakers at his birthday lunch to inject more cash into the program. he might have to push most republicans harder but a few already seem convinced. >> the senate will act this week and get some of the clunkers off the road but we've got to realize where we're going as a nation, how much involvement by the government in the private sector, where does it begin, where does it end? that's the big question for us all. >> the popular program not only helped car sales, it helped salvage yards cash in on the crushed scrap metal. about 150 cars have been brought into a emergency emergency salvage yard, the one you're seeing here, over the past week. good business for them. the u.s. postal service is facing a $7 billion loss this year and considering closing or combining almost 700 post offices around the country. the postal service is losing money as more people are turning

to the internet to send messages and pay bills. no changes are expected before the end of september. and yet so every time i go to the post office, long lines. >> it's one of those things where, yeah, technology changed everything, right? elimbinated the profitability on wall street so they created a bankster scam, the post office is going to go away, music, i mean technology is great but technology also makes things much more efficient. >> so let's keep the post office around? >> you can't. the point is, just as a country, the banking system, health care, anyway. you don't want to hear about it. >> i'm fascinated. do you want to bring in bill and ask him about the hurricane season? >> i wish i could. >> hey, bill? >> yes. >> dylan is saying that the hurricane prediction people don't know anything. >> no, that's not what i said. you're putting words in my mouth. i think they know many things except for their ability to prodikt the future is nonexistent. >> i'm not quoting you verbatim but essentially that's what you said. >> very smart and capable, they can't predict what's going to happen?

>> what do they base it on? >> climatology and what you're seeing now. you're both right. there's not much of a point of me saying there's going to be hurricanes in the future because i can't tell you where they're going to go. it doesn't help you appear. >> we're not mom and dad. you don't have to appease both. you can pick one. >> it tells you it's going to be an active season, that makes people buy stuff and prepare for when the big one happens all the better. it doesn't help you. >> bill, the picture we live in a hurricane-prone area the gulf or whatever. i look at the forecast and think they say there's going to be no hurricanes so i'm not going to bother preparing this year. >> they would never say that. >> that's silly. if i live on the beach, in the gulf or florida i'm ready for a hurricane every year no matter what anybody says. >> that's what you think but people aren't. 20% to 30% of the people that live on the beach are even prepared. >> bill, thank you for jumping in. >> that's why you're both right. >> dylan? >> very smart, they just can't predict the future. it's a difference.

thank you. coming up next here at "the meeting" the absurdity of the health care debate, we'll bring out a couple of comedians, we'll actually make health care fun, interesting and exciting for all. >> good luck with that. >> the bar is high. but a man could dream. we're back on health care, accessible and fun, right after this. i've been growing algae for 35 years.

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all right the president hosting the pr for today to sell health care, and it's been a very shaky one for him in that regard. he's got a big lunch today, going to try to get the democrats, going to host the lunch to get on message. frankly the whole debate becomes

a bit absurd of surge at a certain point in time. we bring in our panel, a stand-up comedian, sharard small and the great debate? >> a lot of health care behind the scenes because we don't get it at vh. >> you solve it behind the scenes there? >> yes. we share band-aids. >> then mickey is writing great stuff on health care. go to slate and do your thing. mickey has been trying to undertake the task of making the health care conversation more accessible and fun so we are less subject to the spin doctors and misdirection and all all of the lobbying and the nonsense. fountain american people actually understand the problem which is we spend 16% and -- we spend a lot and get very little. >> gets confusing. >> help me out here. >> first of all, everybody is worried who is going to bay for the health care.

nobody wants to pass the bill on to our kids except me. >> why? >> why not? if the kids can vote, why not pass it to the next generation and keep that going. >> like playing hot potato? >> yeah. by somebody has to pay for it, we have offspring. >> as long as the two keep producing is the key. >> that's the key. >> we need continuous reproduction to continue to push it down to our children. >> we got to remember the kids can't vote. >> he has a very good point. why are we passing this to everybody under 18 some. >> at some point, the chinese say they're not going to finance our debt anymore and we're in real trouble. >> that's why we use the federal reserve balance sheet. the genius -- the treasury is a real pain because you got to sell the money to china and china is like we don't want to buy it, it's a nightmare but if we stick it in the federal reserve balance sheet it's our children's problem. why not do that? >> i think as we learned at some

point, these financial chickens come home to roost. what doesn't scare me the people say we're going to spend 25%, 35% of our gdp on health care. what is terrible about that? is it more important to buy expensive car? >> on the big spin, i'll spend as much as you want to spend but when i put dollars in and get pennies out for the patient, where basically there are health insurance people or drug people or whoever else it may be, doctor, hospital stuff, all of these other factors where basically the taxpayer is putting in 50% or 20% for health care but instead of the money going to health care it is going for a few billion for these guys and a couple of beach houses and the patients can't get health care. >> if we don't solve this thing, the most embarrassing part about this health care situation, canada is sitting up there laughing at us? >> why? >> because they got it free and they are laughing at us.

>> and spend less than we do. >> that hurts the most for me. >> mickey, the last word. >> i don't know. with medicare, i haven't seen a whole lieutenant of waste in medicare. i know obama is convinced that doctors are going crazy on medicare and ordering extra tests. i haven't seen it. medicare people are happy with it and why not expand medicare and use everybody? that is the liberal solution and makes sense to me. >> we spend all of this money and so little comes out. i would love to spend the mean get a lot as opposed to the opposite. i think sharod has a great idea until you stick it with the children. >> stick it with the kids. kids can vote. we take care of kids. msnbc, look how much are kids. how many kids he saved? he can't get free health care? >> the more kids we keep alive the more we can stick them with our debts. >> you should go work for obama.

>> i should. >> his tag line is stick it with the kids, baby. >> i would work for obama but he doesn't hire black people. >> he doesn't like black people. >> why would he? >> he took that test. we have no idea. mickey, columnist for slate magazine, rodshaw, thanks for coming by. ahead on the "morning meeting," who is the daddy? speaking of kids. >> i'm out of here! >> michael jackson's dermatologist drops his own bombshell in court as a new father emerging for these children? how much longer must we have this conversation? my suspicion is months, my friends, so settle in! this thing is going to court. we've got the details coming up. when my wife started forgetting things...

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still' head in our second half hour of the "morning meeting," more of how we can stick it to our kids. former president bill clinton riding to the rescue. can he free two american journalists serving in prison camps in north korea? the reverend jesse jackson who, himself, went to syria in 1983 to free a captured american pilot gives us intimate detail. a man who has done a very close version of the task the former president is currently

attempting joins us to talk about how this works right after this. here's your tuesday business travel forecast. i'm meteorologist bill karins. problem area, showers and thunderstorms moving through missouri heading for the ohio valley where we could see severe weather and turbulence probably in the air. so far the big cities in the east are looking great. very much a summer-like day. out in the west hot and dry from phoenix into denver. have a great day. (music plays)

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"and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free". all right. good morning to you. welcome back. nice to see you. my name is dylan and nice to be continuing forward with a lovely day of conversations. our own former president bill clinton has made his way to north korea. we have found out ways to solve our health care problems, we'll stick it with the kids.

and a conversation coming up in a second here with the reverend jesse jackson who, himself, made a similar trip to syria a-l-a-bill clinton in 1983 to clear a captured american pilot. to see if the biggest revenue drop since the great recession tends to happen when people are stealing money. could america, in fact, be out of money by 2020? a bombshell renewing debate whether jackson's dermatologist is really the daddy of the king of pop's kids! who is the daddy? i want to know! plus from underwater mudslides to back-to-back earthquakes, you think california is going to fall into the ocean? think again, my friends. it's simply going to slide down towards mexico. it's very different, really. means have you a nice view of when you're in san francisco and whenever this happens. anyway, it's 10:00 a.m.

pull up a chair and join the meeting. not true. that's what the white house is saying about a report that former president bill clinton carried a message from president obama to reclusive north korean leader kim jong-il but how could you help but speculate? he has a special envelope? i don't know. the former president in north korea trying to get two americans released. mike allen, a chief white house correspondent for politico. mike, nice to see you. what do you know about what is going on in north korea right now? >> good morning, dylan, and congratulations on the show. >> thank you. >> a fantastic running surge. >> thank you. >> back story to this shows a little bit that it is, indeed, a private meeting. the white house this morning, when they said they were not going to comment on this, called it purely private and a good reason for that. that is, we don't have diplomatic relations with north

korea so if this were an official visit this would be much more complicated and involve officials of the government. president clinton is a private citizen. we're told that the north korean officials communicated to relatives of these two young reporters that they would surrender the women to president clinton. now, this was some weeks ago. this isn't the kind of mission where you just jump on u.s. air and head over there. so it was carefully worked out. it was done with the blessing, with the approval of the white house, but that's different than it being an official visit or having some message. so president clinton, as a private citizen, we're told, flew from anchorage into north korea. amazing meeting, right? we've been seeing the video on msnbc. received flowers and told by the north korean media that they had a dinner for him tonight. so the challenge for him is to take care of his mission as quickly as he can when the women

are in free soil, that's when the white house will have a statement about this and say what has gone before. >> mike, stay with us. jonathan capehart and stephen a. smith here for the conversation. >> mike, i'm a fan. thank you for being on the show. i got to ask you when you look at the fact that clinton is going over to north korea, what does that say about what north korea feels about the obama administration, particularly, and, specifically, hillary rodham clinton? >> i can tell you what they want you to think is that they are anxious to engage, that they want to have a better face to the world. there's other ways they can do that. they can stop testing missiles, for instance. that also would be taken as a positive sign by western observers, as we say. >> jonathan capehart, are you there? >> i'm right here, dylan. >> when you play a game of political leverage which is what we've been playing with north korea and trying to play it with iran, whether it's by way of sanction or some sort of moral high ground, whatever your

mechanism is, is there anything in the dialogue that you've seen, whether with iran or by watching the former president now make a diplomatic effort in north korea that suggests that we are seeing any sort of a change in the way that the leverage of the united states government is going to be applied in what were the former axis of evil countries, be it iran or north korea? >> i'm not sure. i mean, as mike rightly pointed out, because we don't have official diplomatic relations with north korea, president clinton is over there as a private citizen. the white house isn't even commenting on this. and, remember, also, that north korea and the united states -- or north korea and the world, for that matter, has -- we have this sort of -- this weird relationship where north korea is like -- like a petyou dlent child trying to get attention. whether shooting off missiles and kidnapping journalists saying that their spies and

then, slowly, but surely, sending signals and doing things to make it clear that, you know, hey, look, we're willing to play ball. we've been going through this for decades now with north korea. just because it appears they, perhaps, might be handing over the two journalists to president clinton, i'm not sure how that plays in the long run in the relationship between the united states and north korea. >> mike allen, if you look at things like special enjoy efforts we've made in the east over the years and, obviously, clinton got a lot of compliments and rightly so for his efforts in diplomacy in that part of the world. is there something to be said for offline diplomacy? in private business they do this all the time. we had private relations with vietnam and corporate and other conversations with vietnam prior. is this a version of that where nondiplomatic precedes diplomatic? >> those are all good points, dylan. we don't know the full back

story. we don't know what north korea originally asked for. of course, these two young women are reporters for television network, current tv satellite and cable that was founded and the chairman is al gore. so the vice president, of course, has been laying we low on this because you don't want to say something that is going to endanger them. that's why i think we have to be careful with this conversation here. all of the indications are that president clinton's mission is going well. but how sure are we that the north koreans are going to do what they promised? so we have to be careful about that. i think, the government and president clinton's world will be freer what is going on here after the women are on a plane and i think you'll hear more from the white house when the plane is landed. >> clinton wouldn't go unless an indication ahead of time that his going would be successful. >> that's right. that is what was done in these weeks. they did believe that this would happen and that is why the white

house gave its approval without it having be a white house mission. >> i wonder what the end game is here for president clinton if he pulls this off? is it a slap in the obama administration's face? >> no. we don't know the full story yet of what they really wanted and asked for and that is why we can't make leaps here when our facts might be completely wrong. >> coming up in the next half hour, we will talk with the reverend jesse jackson who went to syria himself in 1983 in an effort to secure the release of a captured american pilot. he can walk us through the dynamic of this type of diplomacy, special enjoy private citizen diplomacy. we will talk to jesse on that subject in a little bit. meanwhile, contessa has the rest of the developing news in the world. ray odierno agreed with suggestions that the u.s. should pull troops out of iraq earlier

than planned. general odierno tells the ap suggests the plan to keep troops in iraq until the end of 2011 is the best way to achieve it. iranian attorneys are interrogating three americans who illegally hiked into iran according to reuters. shane bauer was considering the elections in the kurdish region but they crossed the border into iran. secretary of state hillary clinton and swiss diplomats with working on america's behalf trying to get more details from the iranian foreign minister. the pilot of a bangkok airways plane is dead and 30 injured after the plane skidded off the runway and crashed into the control tower. the plane just landed on one of the resort islands in stormy weather. breaking economic news right now. good news for the housing market. national association of realtors says pending home sales rose in june for the fifth straight month. the last time there were five consecutive monthly gains was back in july of 2003.

dylan, want to weigh in? >> no. thank you for the opportunity. >> no problem. the obama administration is set to take on the problem of texting while driving. wait a minute! the president is ready to take on texting while driving? today, transportation secretary ray lahood expected to announce a summit on distracted driving. he says if it were up to him he would ban texting while driving completely. >> how could you not? it's not like banning texting while driving. crazy. >> why would you need to? don't people understand it's lame? >> this is also the same government that -- >> summit? >> i know. listen. we need a summit for texting while driving and still refuse to be honest about too big to fail. welcome to america. >> let's not be hypocritical because we're all guilty of that. >> no, i'm not! >> no. >> you should. >> for sure. >> i know you have! >> of course. but i should get a ticket when i

do. >> exactly. and so should i. >> that's right. we'll take our tickets. as long as we can stick the -- steal the beal for the banks and the health care with the kids, we'll pay our tickets. can we make that deal? all right. maybe not. nobody seems to want to make deals this morning. coming up on the "morning meeting," the reverend jesse jackson made a few deals himself including one to free an american pilot in '83, bill clinton now trying to get two journalists out of north korea the same way. the reverend joins us to talk about how these sorts of things actually work and what happens ahead of time and what happens on the ground and then how it is that you managed to get everybody out. plus going for broke. tax revenue following at alarming rate. surprise, surprise. stimulus spending, any kind of health care reform bill passed actually adds to the cost as we see the most precipitous drop. huffington post did a great job with this yesterday illustrating the decline in tax revenue in this country as a result of all the is a nan shenanigans we've

been discussing. social security, medicare, you know the list, will be broke. still, we are california soon to be. i think we're going to do something. ni. i'm just here to ask questions. we are back with america trying to stave off its own bankruptcy, having inherited the debts of all its friends and neighbors. ♪ upbeat rock ♪ singer:wanted to get myself a new cell phone ♪

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good tuesday. i'm contessa brewer. if you think the economy is bad now, boy, things could get worse in the next few years. a study by the associated press finds tax revenue falling at an alarming rate while, at the same time, health care costs and stimulus spending are going to

keep adding to a record deficit. tax receipts are on pace to fall 18% this year. that would be the biggest drop since the great depression. that's not all. individual income tax receipts are down 22%. corporate tax receipts are down 57%. one of the biggest reasons for this is the lack of available credit that stems from the banking crisis. time is running out for america's entitlement program, social security, tax receipts may drop for only the second time in nearly 70 years. under the government's best case scenario the agency will start paying out more than it received in just seven years. the worst case? in four years. social security on pace to go bankrupt by 2037 which is about the time i'll be retiring. >> stick it with the kids. the plan here is stick it with the kids. we've solved this but keep going. >> medicare is in the red, too, because it started out paying more than it takes in last year. so you add all of these things together and, i'm sorry, you know, i love to be the glass

half full kind person but i feel the glass is half empty. >> this is a problem we have to solve, nothing more. we have an inefficient system and a lot of money coming out and not a lot of going in. we have to create value and we'll be fine. mo joins us, editor of "the business insider." and founder of is a bell and a journalist for the "the wall street journal" walks talking point and memo and smarty pants in general and good person as far as i can tell. i can't vouch for her character but she seems quite lovely. ship been writing a lot about the revenue hit that our economy is taking in the context of what else is going on. what is this driving? in other words, you talk about a huge tax hunt now the swiss bank accounts because we're losing money -- we've never looked for tax cheese more aggressive than we are right now. >> right. it's about time.

we haven't -- you know, i had a tax attorney call me when i was at talking points memo and telling me basically between 1999 and 2004 or something like that, if you made between $10 million and $30 million a year you weren't really paying your taxes because you were using these tax shelters and, you know, all sorts of, you know, is a nan gansz. >> what short of shenanigans? i'd like to use some of those. >> a big player -- >> go ahead. >> a big player in the big was aig, financial products enterprise there. >> can we stop on aig a second? what really -- what i love about aig is there is no better way to steal money than an insurance scam. because if i want to steal money on the street, i got to get a gun and harass people or if i want to burglarize, i have to break in. but an insurance scam they send you the money willingly up front which is absolutely genius. it's very clever.

they send you the checks. >> you know, they weren't the biggest -- or nothing. >> i know, exactly. moving on. you were saying before the commercial and you were talking about not just the tax cheats and getting the tax cheats but the whole tax structure. >> the whole thing, sure, it's the largest decrease in tax receipts since the great depression. it's the biggest financial crisis since the great depression. we shouldn't pretend it's nothing but we're going after people who haven't been paying their tax in the boom years. you know, the irs is fully enabled to do that right now. and we have to keep it in perspective because, you know, i think this year the deficit spending is 13% of gdp. the national debt is probably going to go to 60% to 75% of gdp and way under japan. consumer debt i sni under -- >> go ahead. >> you just finished saying that the irs is fully equipped to go after those folks now.

were they not fully equipped to go after them before? >> i don't think they're fully equipped to go after them now and they definitely aren't now. i'm sort of saying they have been sort of released from, perhaps, what was an administration -- >> hold on. jonathan, i'll let you comment on this poll because it's very telling. a new gull gallup poll who do you trust more? the irs or the federal reserve bank of the united states of america? who do you think they trust more, jonathan? >> that's so hard! >> perceived to be more trust worthy than the federal reserve bank of the united states of america is the irs. i think people understand the ponzi scheme that was the banking scam that ended up at the federal reserve, where we basically took the ponzi -- bernie madoff -- >> yeah. . the fed was the greatest tool. >> yeah. so america is a sucker for the banksters, right? the ponzi gets stuck with the fed and people look at them, no, the fed is a facilitator of the

ponzi. the irs is putting people in jail. >> what do you feel about the president's message? you got the right wing side talking about how he is trying to redistribute wealth and pretty much change the definition of capitalism in this country, et cetera. what you just said about how people making 10 million to 30 million weren't even paying their taxes. it seems to me that if the president of the united states made it a point to really articulate that message properly that people were really, really get it and you wouldn't be in a position from the right side to have such an uprising. >> i think that the president has done a pretty good job, or at least did earlier this year ar particular lating that. some of the basic fundamentals we can't have a bubble-based economy. we have to get back -- this has been echoed by ceos across corporate america. we have to get back into manufacturing. we have to start creating stuff. >> we have to get back into anything. the business of going to washington and playing ponzi schemes and parlor games is not capitalism.

>> but it is the status quo and it is what -- we don't -- you know, barack obama doesn't want another 10% gdp contraction because it might be a little bit more efficient way of restructuring the economy. >> it might be. capitalism requires that the people with the money have to make money by putting it in as opposed to taking it out, right? in other words, if the way i make money on wall street is extracting capital from society so i become rich is exactly what they did. >> right. >> that is no different than the government saying small business is illegal. you cannot have capitalism unless you have small businesses on the one hand. >> that's true. >> and also you have capital markets are, by law, forced to put money in, where it is illegal to the point of going to jail if you take money out. that is just as much capitalism as a small business. >> well, that's why you need to reap taxes on the rich. >> i wouldn't raise taxes as much as i would reinforce the rules of capital marketing so investors have so invest. i need to get rid of ponzi

schemes and parlor games and i will be back to investing. we will bring you back, moe. i can't speak to character. i know! leave me alone! leave me alone. she is. still to come on the "morning meeting" today a conversation with the reverend jesse jackson, his trip to syria in '83 and the insight that may be able to offer us about former president bill clinton's current efforts in north korea. it's been 25 years since jesse made that jurny. michael jackson can't get away from it. now the dermatologist says he wants custody of the children but he is going to explain why in court. >> billie jean was his lover. >> billie jean might have been somebody else's lover! what am i going to tell you? we're back after this. businesses more efficiently,

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all right. welcome back. white house denying reports that former president clinton pass add message to president obama

to kim jong-il. clinton is trying to free two u.s. journalists. jesse jackson is here with us now. the closest parallel we can find from late december 1983 when the reverend went into syria and was able to secure the release of captured american flyer navy lieutenant robert goodman jr. reverend, first off, welcome back to the program. nice to see you. it's a summer money and nice to see your face. >> thank you. a big deal happening in north korea today. >> tell us how this works. >> well, i think what has happened is the u.s. had real hard line, relative demanding their release using the term human rights with the north koreans objected to. they bargained that they finally did north korean law. so the language switched to

amnesty for a crime committed. in prison changed their language and argument changed its language. i've been in touch with the families the last month or so quite frequently and about a month ago, we were trying to get into north korea, but the state department sent two officials to north korea and they were not able to get them out. and so president clinton has the stature to be close enough to the government to have an impact and far enough way to be independent so there is no tradeoff between getting them out and the other political negotiations which our country and north korea, say, for example, things about nuclear development. >> the magic trick in these situations, it would seem, is to get what you want, which is the release of a captive in this case, and not insult or make the person who has the captor feel like they've lost face in the process, which i guess is why -- go ahead. >> right. don't insult them, but also do

not represent our government because it puts us government in a predicament. but, fortunately, in this, they made it clear he is not representing the u.s. government. he is representing his own stature and making a moral appeal for amnesty and it is in north korea's interest to release them. if they seek to go further in negotiations, it is north korea's interest and our desire. >> dylan, it's jonathan. >> go ahead. >> reverend jackson, this is jonathan capehart in washington. can you answer this question for me? even though you and president clinton and you, yourself, acted as american citizens and not not on behalf of the government, how much coordination is there between you, president clinton, and the government, the united states government in power at the time? >> well, there is always -- you know, you contact your own state department, just out of respect. and you do not want to be in a position where your own government is made to feel awkward by your efforts.

but you do try to appeal to a government on the level, say, for north korea, that we do care about you. we do care about north korea. we don't want war in north korea. you're making the right kind of moral appeal, trying to create something between the official negotiations and the moral appeal. >> reverend jackson, this is stephen a. smith here, sir. i got to ask you. give us a play-by-play. what is it that you could go in there or former president clinton could go in there and do as a private citizen that the administration itself can't do to facilitate the release of hostages. give us the play-by-play that may be exercised. >> well, if the government goes in, you immediately into hardline negotiations. in this case, about nuclear development, about north and south korean negotiations, about trade, about possible military

options. so it's a very hard-nosed deal. but they still want some opening, some communications outlet, hopefully, about someone who can get this side of the story out to the public. i remember we got looped into the goodman out of syria, president reagan said before i went, you shouldn't go because you will not get him but if you get him, bring him back. so the syrians knew i was not representing reagan but respectful of his position as president. we brought goodman back to the white house and president reagan said what can i do for you? i said call him and say thank you. he called and said thank you and they never stopped talking. so that little entree that helped open that door, stephen. i think president clinton has the stature of being former president, the husband of secretary of state, obviously, connected to the government so he brings to the table an awful lot. north korea is trying to send a message that they really want to talk is what they're saying. >> let's think about this. if we go down the line you're

drawing for us, reverend, and think perhaps bill clinton will come back or north korea is hopeful engaging in this way that someone like bill clinton can come back and represent the north korean side of the story, if you will, at least on a human side, what would the president's message be, do you think? what message does north korea want heard? >> is message that they can be talked with and not down to. when we use the language human rights, they rejected that language of human rights. they said they were within their rights to capture the two young women. so we shift our language to say amnesty. you will technically legally right and we respect your law. so you use the word amnesty rather than human rights. that kind of language shifts were taking place. clearly, if he brings them back, it says to american political leadership you can talk with north korea. they want to be talked with. i think in the end why all of this maneuvering about nuclear

weapons but they don't want to war with them and they don't want war with us. we have to take a bridge across that has been fairly hot and high in rhetoric. >> i agree with you. reverend, thank you for the time and it's a lovely day in august. >> next time take stephen smith with me, too. >> he could be a huge problem. he has a mouth. he can work for or against you. >> he's the man! >> thank you, reverend. jonathan, have you to go to your morning meeting. stephen, you can stay till the end of the meeting? >> if you want me. >> i do. a series of earthquakes just yesterday in baha, california. hundreds, i guess, felt the earthquak earthquakes. what happened yesterday? >> it's part after larger geological disturbance to get to the scientific cause for and this morning, apparently californians are still bracing

for after-shocks of the series of quakes that rattled the southern part of the state yesterday. the largest 6.9 jolt and felt as far away as phoenix, arizona. four quakes all over. 5.0 hit within 45 minutes and geologists say those quakes could be part of a larger, longer, so-called swarm. a 6.0 quake struck earlier if in july the same region and san diego's quake caused workers in downtown high-rises to evacuate. no reports of injuries or serious damage. >> here is the interesting thing. obviously, you see the clusters and you get scared, obviously, there quakes are scary. then everybody says california is -- >> i remember last year. >> california is going to fall into the ocean is a whole thing. a matter of when. apparently not. california may not fall into the ocean but is watching its coast slide south into baha. we're joined on the phone by joanne stock, professor of

geology and geo physics at cal tech. i have my telestrator and the state of california. probably won't work out because you're on the phone, joanne. give us a sense. if you would describe to us what is going on with the plates of the earth in that part of the world, that would help us understand what lurks in california's future. >> sure. well, the san andres fault is the plate on the west from north america to the east on the right-hand side if you're looking at a regular map. >> right. >> like los angeles is connected down to the baha, california, peninsula which is part of mexico but that is also on the pacific plate so that is all sliding northwest and opening up a hole, which is the gulf of california which is where these earthquakes happened yesterday. so they're happening on a fault that is sort of like the san andres fault but it's under water and no cities on top of it so luckily no major damage. >> the fault runs we know runs

inside the coastal california, yes? >> yes. >> a second fault you say is identical or similar which is underneath the pacific ocean just off the coast, is that correct? >> well, it's under the gulf of california. >> got it. so further south there is a fault. basically, the reason baha, california, exists and you can't see it on this map but that split is because there was a giant earthquake at some point in time and a piece of southern california, which is now mexico, that part of the earth, broke off from mexico, is that correct? >> right. there is a bunch of earthquakes along a set of faults down there and all breaking off from it. >> it's from that sea of cortex or gulf of california seeing more earthquakes drive up. is that part going to continue to split off san diego and all southern california? >> yes, but it's not moving real fast. >> so dag and l.r. are going to break off the same way that cabo san lucas busted off of mexico, is that correct? >> yeah.

but it may take millions of years. >> i was going to ask what is the time frame? we're talking about is this happening in the next few years? i just want to be clear. >> joanne, what is the time frame again, clearly? >> it's moving a few inches a year. >> reminds me of the conversation with yesterday's conversation with the author of black schwann. it happens a little over a time. it reaches a tipping point and then kawow. the banks blow up and the earthquakes happen. there is accumulation of tension for the big one, so to speak? >> no, that's exactly what it is. it long-term reap would be a few inches a year but might not move for a hundred years and then go in a big earthquake. >> anything to do something about that right now to address the situation? doesn't sound like it. >> i don't think there's anything we can do except be prepared.

we know there has been big earthquakes in california in the past and we're not expecting those to stop, but they don't happen all that often. >> got it. scary and it's one of like those hurricanes and terrorists, what are you going to do? you get hit by a rock. >> listen. when you say scary, what do you mean? >> plane crashes. i'm just saying it's one of those things, who knows. it's the abstract. >> okay. >> earthquakes. >> listen, i've spoken to numerous friends. i have a lot of friends in california. nobody thinks about this according to them. >> why should they? >> that's not to take away anything from what she was explaining but california, they'll tell you they got a whole bunch of other problems. >> they got more problems than the earthquakes. >> they are not even thinking about that right now. >> speaking of earthquakes, we'll flip from earthquakes to above ground activity. breaking weather news. flood emergency in effect in kentucky. what is going on, bill? >> we're seeing the worst flooding in louisville city's

history. the last three hours they picked up 4 inches of rain and breaks the record for rainfall on an august day. pictures off the wave3 website our affiliate in the louisville area. they are dealing with this not in just one isolated area. this is all over the downtown region. the roads look like rivers. there's numerous water rescues that on ongoing including a woman and two children that were just rescued. reports of car floating in three feet of water in downtown areas. so this isn't isolated. this thunderstorm cell sat over louisville the last three hours and now moving out but a lot of damage is and has been done, dylan. >> thank you, bill. >> that is something to be worried about. >> that is worrying. >> forget the earthquake. thank you. up next on the agenda, another twist in the michael jackson legal drama. who needs day time soap operas when you have michael jackson's custody battle? >> it's really sad. >> we will converse after this. never thought i would have a heart attack,

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call today for your free guide. welcome back. our man in the rose colored glasses is here, ian halpern. courtn courtney, what is going on on america's favorite soap opera? >> well, the word is i don't have any sunglasses as cool as ian's. >> he let me wear them last time. he'll let you wear them, i'm sure. >> i have to get in line, apparently. it's funny. you kept saying yesterday how long do we have to follow this? you were totally moaning about this. everything you say something unweird is going to take place, okay, good. when mark vincent kaplan, he represented kevin federline in his divorce with brittany spears. he shows up in court and says my

client, dr. klein has unique interests in the custody of this case, his u exactly words. unique interest. they put out a full statement. what does it all mean? we've heard these rumors that dr. klein possibly could be a sperm donor in this situation. he's never directly said no, i'm definitely not. so this opens up the door for speculation because why else would he want to weigh in on the kids specific education and their medical needs? he said it was a promise to michael later in his life and that is what he is pursuing but it sounds like more. >> i've been thinking about it. this isn't really news so much as it is drama. news is news. this is more of -- i consider this more of a grand drama. almost like we need sound effects where it's dah, dah, dah and somebody else is the father! >> remember, this is in the

backdrop of somebody who died under very strange circumstances. >> i get it. it's an american tragedy for sure. >> pop culture icon of our time. so when you put all of the pieces of the puzzle together, it is news. but i understand how you say, well, this is just drama, who cares. >> if the drama is compelling but -- anyway. ian, you're compelling as well, particularly with the glasses which adds to the whole thing. >> i think you look better in them than myself. >> i appreciate that. we've got, obviously, michael jackson had the children and we know debbie rowe bore those children. we don't know who the father is and now the doctor in the office with the mother of the children saying i have a unique interest in these children, your honor. i feel -- i'm the father moment coming forward in the next few weeks. >> let me tell you something. >> please. >> michael jackson lived life enigma and he wen out of life the same way and left so many

pieces in the puzzle missing. he is up in the sky looking down with a smile. this is the way he would like it to have gone. all of these guys are innocent until proven guilty. while all of the cops right now are headed in the direction -- the media especially. >> right. >> with murray, it was brilliant. >> murray is the doctor with the injection? >> yeah with the propofol. >> a doctor with a needle and pop star. >> brilliant strategic move by the cops while all of the media is going in one direction, the cops are going in a completely other direction. >> meaning? >> they are going for the other doctors, former and current employ piece yahoo! es. this is going to be the biggest court case ever in american judicial history. >> you believe this is bigger than o.j. trial? >> o.j. is kindergarten to this. they are taking their sweet time to charge people here because in life, you know, if you give man enough rope he is going to hang himself and that is why --

doctors are perspiring right now. >> you think end with a murder trial? a manslaughter trial? a custody trial? all of the above. >>? all of the above. this is the soap opera, as you said, the grand soap opera. michael jackson. not a hollywood script writer could have done better than this and michael would have wanted it this way. yesterday, we saw katherine jackson. she should have been the person at this point to get legal guardianship of this these kids but stuff is going to play out. we're not even in the first inning with two outs. >> i thought the bank caper was a good one. this is a whole other caper. >> this is a whole different ball game. a whole different sphere. and klein yesterday, having his lawyer, show up in court with k-fed's old lawyer. with all due respect to dr. klein he was michael's close adviser and doctor for ions but we have to know what his actual role is. >> i get it and look forward. courtney, thank you so much. ian, always a pleasure.

>> thank you. >> if you wouldn't mind bringing glasses for courtney the next time you visit. >> she would look better. >> i'm sure she would. what was that sound? oh, the drama our take-away on the big show, let's say it involves jonathan capehart, once again, being caught on camera. k ♪ singer:wanted to get myself a new cell phone ♪ ♪ so i could hear myself as a ringtone ♪ ♪ who knew the store would go and check my credit score ♪ ♪ now all they let me have is this dinosaur ♪ ♪ hello hello hello can anybody hear me? ♪ ♪ i know i know i know i shoulda gone to ♪ ♪ free credit report dot com! ♪ that's where i shoulda gone! coulda got my knowledge on! ♪ ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage. it's real food at the right price! this is the primo stuff.

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time for a quick take-away. we have a lot of conversation at this meeting as we all know, two hours, every morning, carrying on. sometimes it comes with food deprivation. and jonathan capehart's case he is locked in a studio waiting for a camera for his opportunity to talk. take a look again. jonathan, this morning. if you're wondering how jonathan spends his time off camera -- now, hang on. that's wrong! that is just wrong! he is eating his bagel!

>> what is wrong with you? >> there you go. he is eating his bagel. >> are you kidding me? you catch me picking my nose. one time when i was working at cnbc they put me on camera accident stretching my face like this! >> show that right there. >> while interviewing hillary clinton. what happens off camera sometimes is best left off camera. we appreciate jonathan's efforts and jonathan, we'll try to get you food from now on. hope to see you back here tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. the man needs to eat! get him some food! it's the chevy open house. and now, with the cash for clunkers program, a great deal gets even better. let us recycle your older vehicle and you could qualify for an additional $3500 or $4500 cash back on a new, more fuel-efficient chevy. your chevy dealer has more eligible models to choose from. more than ford, toyota, or honda. now get an '09 cobalt for under fifteen-five after all offers. and get it for even less if you

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washington post" investigation suggested some traders may be illegally be using computers to make the extra billions. is the recession forcing some states to make decisions about funding prisons and are some criminals getting a free ride? a new poll suggesting that president obama is losing support with his supporters. i'm carlos watson. former white house chief of staff andy card and democratic senator maybe the ultimate bellwether democrat jon tester and allen jenkins and "the washington post" steve pearlstein and nbc savannah guthrie and talk pop culture of the co-host jennifer koppelman hut. iranian media reports say three americans are being questioned after being detained for crossing the border from iraq during a hiking trip. a state television in iran says the issue has been used as propaganda against the islamic republic.

taliban is claiming responsibility for rocket attacks which in a number of neighborhoods in kabul including one near the american embassy. taliban spokesman says the attacks underscore the government does not control security around kabul ahead of the presidential election later this month. senate begins debate on the nomination of sotomayor to the supreme court. democrats appear unanimous in their support. only a few republicans plan to vote for her. dr. arnold klein claimed unique interest in jackson's children. katherine jackson responded this morning on "today." take a listen. >> it is somewhat interesting from a media standpoint, but it has no basis of relevance from a legal standpoint. he has no standing. >> the judge denied dr. klein's claim to have any say in the children's lives. each day if you watch msnbc live you